We wanted to follow up the article last month’s Totally Dublin, ‘How To Win Your Referendum’, with a simple reminder of who the referendum is for in a very immediate sense, people in long term same-sex relationships. We realise of course, the referendum is also (all going according to plan) there to enshrine marriage rights for everyone in perpetuity, for today’s young gay community and beyond, but the aim here was to put a concrete set of faces onto an abstract question about love and the law as an effective way of presenting why people should being saying Yes come May 22nd.
~~~~~~~~~~
How long have you been together and can you tell me a little of how the relationship began?
Carla: We met the in October of 2007. It was a blind date dinner party, hosted by our very good friend Séan Kissane. Nathalie was friends with Séan and my boogie buddy Philip Powell introduced me to Séan. The dinner was been planned for months, with rounds and rounds of emails trying to lock down a date, which can be difficult when you have five gays with very busy social diaries. I would liken it to trying to herd a bunch of excited puppies – damn near impossible.
It turned out to be a very interesting dinner; good mix of guests, conversation and some very dodgy dance moves. We eventually escaped on our own to the Odessa club for some late night cocktails and chats. That weekend Nathalie introduced me to some of the City’s best architecture as she was hosting Dublin’s Open House. I just remember thinking she was so cool cultured and smart!
Nathalie: I had just returned from London I thought a blind date could be a bit of fun at the very least I’d reconnect with old friends and meet new ones. Everyone at the party was constantly looking to see if Carla and me were clicking, it was like we were the entertainment. That’s when we escaped. I thought she was edgy, irreverent, funny, all the qualities I like. The rest is history.
Ireland was extremely conservative in the 1980s and 1990s and somewhat less so now. When do you feel that real strides for recognition of gay rights began to happen? Were there key, big moments, or is it a case of more slow and steady improvement?
Nathalie: I was a member of the Gay Society in UCD in the early ’90s and I was becoming aware of politics and an understanding of where gay people were positioned in society. I was still a very secret gay and mostly, I hung out there because I liked being part of a group and a community. Once decriminalisation happened in 1993 I felt so proud to witness this turning point in equality in Irish history. As well as societal transformation, it had an amazing effect on Irish culture, pop, music and art. Club culture took off and it was very gay but also very inclusive. I have fond memories of Powder bubble, Horny Organ Tribe and then Alternative Miss Ireland was unleashed. I often wish I was back in the ’90s, everyone was gay or wanted to be, it was transformative, brave, and creative.
Carla: I was in art college in the ’90s and it was it’s own insulated little cosmos, I was out to all my friends and part of close knit group where your sexuality was never really factor, they were more interested when it was your shout at the bar.
I left Dublin for Australia in the late ’90s and returned to Ireland mid-2000. I did see and feel a real difference, a more open and relaxed gay culture. Younger gays feeling comfortable in their city. Pride seemed to be more mainstream and a larger event now. A good mate, Libby Jones, took me on my first Pride march, it would have been in 2001 I think, I’ll never forget it. Thanks for that Libby!
Nathalie: But on a serious note and moving away from reminiscing about our clubbing youth, there have been extraordinary developments in the status of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in Irish society over the past two decades. A mere 22 years since homosexuality was decriminalised and this was quickly followed by equality legislation which ensured that gay people could not be discriminated against in employment. And then in 2010 Civil Partnership, was a major step. Some people ask now as we approach the Marriage Referendum, ‘Do you not already have most of rights and responsibilities?’ Yes, but what we don’t have is full and equal citizenship and as a proud Irish person working in the creative sector and promoting Irish culture abroad this is so essential for me, it is a basic right. I don’t think it’s asking for much.
Have there been any particularly difficult barriers to overcome – in relation to societal or familial pressures? Or has support been present throughout?
Carla: I think I’ve been very lucky overall; my Mum and friends have always been supportive. My father died back in 1997 but he knew I was gay, it was an unspoken understanding that we didn’t feel the need to ever talk about. It’s also been quite a positive experience for me in my career, I work in the creative field so it’s less of big deal to be different, it’s almost expected of you to be a bit left field or alternative.
Nathalie: My family, friends, work colleagues have no issues with me being gay, and will be out knocking on doors for the YES campaign. However, I came out late, I think if I had come out in the 80s as a teenager in rural Wicklow, I would have a different tale to tell. Pretending not to be gay is a mechanism used to counter your awareness that you might not be accepted or there are signs that there may be hostility towards you. I certainly felt that stress.
Professionally, in a similar way to Carla, I think we are lucky we work in a sector that rewards being anti establishment and a more liberal agenda, but I know there have been barriers for many in society. I think what we are trying to achieve now is that being gay and having equal status in society will be the establishment. It’s a win for all of us if we achieve this on May the 22nd.
If the referendum passes this May, how do you plan to celebrate?
Nathalie: I will celebrate with Carla, friends and family, because this will be an amazing moment that will be collectively shared, gay or straight. I think it will be very emotional.
Carla: I proposed to Nathalie about two weeks after we first met, I knew straight away she was the one for me. I know she thought I was a bit bonkers but eventually came to round to my way of thinking. I think a winter ceremony in Wicklow would be nice.
Words: Ian Lamont
Photo: Killian Broderick
